| Author | Message | ||
     Patsy Cunningham (Patsy_cunningham) Member Username: patsy_cunningham Post Number: 3 Registered: 08-2005 |
In RI, we've had a challenge class for some years that allows roses with unknown names in our Dr. Jaroslav Struminsky class. We also added in a class "A Couple of Singles" (for single roses) and a "Salute to Dr. Brownell" (a fellow Rhode Islander whose roses we feature there). Our schedule is online each year at rirs.org. This year we're going to take advantage of the interest in shrub roses and an abundance of unused English boxes and combine them. Patsy | ||
| Kay Cangemi (Mad_gallica) Intermediate Member Username: mad gallica Post Number: 36 Registered: 01-2006 |
There are perpetual trophies. Most people don't want to bother with them, so they live on a shelf in our basement. "Keepie" trophies are usually stupid little trinkets, and the District show is the only show I know that tries to have a lot of them. We got a nice little picture frame for Victorian Award at the District show a few years ago. Mostly what the shows are about are bragging rights. I am not only the local show chairman, I am also the more important Keeper of the Schedule. If I don't like it, it is subject to change. We do not have 'elite' exhibitors. As far as I'm concerned, such people can take a long walk off a short pier. We don't need them. What we need, is to get as many of our local society members involved in the show as possible, so they are willing to do what is necessary to keep the show running. If they aren't willing to set up tables, fill bottles, etc. we have no business putting on a show. | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Intermediate Member Username: Jeri Post Number: 134 Registered: 01-2006 |
Ok, I am still lost. Both our schedule, and the Hartford schedule provide a class for roses without official AENs. Either because the ARS doesn't like the rose, or because the exhibitor doesn't know the name of the rose. They don't need a special table because they have a class in the show. *** That's terrific Kay. It has never happened in the PSWD of ARS, and I strongly suspect that it's not gonna happen any time soon. As Baldo says -- such classes are done at the discretion of the show-giving Society. We DID once offer such a class, at a show I chaired. But the "Elite" exhibitors (and most of the judges) were angry about it. Baldo, I LOVE that "Tin Can Derby" idea. There is NO reason why rose shows should be stuffy. Kay -- Do you mean no "trophies"???? I could get into that idea. Jeri Jennings | ||
| Kay Cangemi (Mad_gallica) Intermediate Member Username: mad gallica Post Number: 35 Registered: 01-2006 |
Baldo, as much as anything it seems to be a very distinct difference between eastern and western shows. Here, there are two fairly distinct types of classes. The first goes very strictly by ARS rules and is awarded ARS certificates. This is why the lack of depth in ARS shrub and OGR awards is such a problem. Yes, nobody is making us do this, however, the certificates are a major expense for us, and if we start ignoring them, it starts a slippery slope of ignoring them all together. Is this a good or a bad thing. I'm not sure. The second group are Challenge Classes. They are usually only eligible for local certificates, and yes, they can be anything anybody's sick brain can think up. Those are where the shrub and OGR collections hang out, as well as the palettes, English boxes, roses with names connected with James Bond movies, etc. Something to keep in mind, is that it is not customary here to give out much more beyond the certificates. | ||
| Baldo Villegas (Sactorose) Intermediate Member Username: sactorose Post Number: 9 Registered: 04-2005 |
Kay: Let's keep the ARS out of this. The only time the ARS is involved is in classes where there is a ARS award involved and the local rose society WANTS to give out these awards such as Queen, King, Princess, Dowager Queen Certificate, Victorian Certificate, etc. The bottom line is that the local rose society can do anything the show chair does. We have at least one rose society in our District that does not award ARS Awards and they are free to put on a rose show any way they want. If the local rose society for example want to have a class for the best example of "Japanese Beetle damage on Roses" they can do so and any entry showing such damage is allowed no matter if the damage occurred on a mini, HT, OGR or a found rose. The name of the rose is not relevant or the class. Here the best damage is what is what is being judged. Of course, they would have somebody like me to judge it.... in my honor. I find that some of these classes are great to judge. My rose society has a special class called "The Tin Can Derby". This calls for any type of metal can with a bouquet of your leftover roses; roses do not need to be named; only open to exhibitors who have exhibited at least 10 entries in the show. This class always has entries from most of the exhibitors with large number of entries. I have won it numberous times. The most unforgetable entry was when I took lots of Altissimo blooms to the rose show but I could only enter one in the Climbing Rose Class. In this case I entered a beautiful one stem spray. The rest I put them in the Tin Can Derby Class and it won the class as well as the Best of Show! | ||
| Kay Cangemi (Mad_gallica) Intermediate Member Username: mad gallica Post Number: 34 Registered: 01-2006 |
Ok, I am still lost. Both our schedule, and the Hartford schedule provide a class for roses without official AENs. Either because the ARS doesn't like the rose, or because the exhibitor doesn't know the name of the rose. They don't need a special table because they have a class in the show. It's the last class in the Hartford schedule, for those of you on the West coast who wanted to know how the East coast manages such things. Any challenge class that does not specifically state 'exhibition form' or 'hybrid tea' does include other things by default. There is a point to the minimalist wording in some classes. | ||
| Merrill Hulse (Kernel) Intermediate Member Username: kernel Post Number: 40 Registered: 09-2004 |
Ron said: "Am I wrong in thinking that the judges who do that aren't following the ARS rules? I thought each rose was supposed to be judged by the standard for the particular rose, NOT just the particular class?" Is your tongue firmly in cheek? Why else are some roses described as having "exhibition form?" Baldo is right, but most socities don't provide for the vageries of rose form. | ||
| Baldo Villegas (Sactorose) Intermediate Member Username: sactorose Post Number: 8 Registered: 04-2005 |
Ron: There are guidelines for judging roses according to the class that they are in. Irish Elegance, for example, is a single petalled rose and generally single petalled roses are grouped either in a large class for single petaled roses of just HT's or in another class with other types of roses (HT's, Floribunda's shrubs, climbers, etc). Generally the single petalled minis (incl. minifloras) are placed in a separate class so they do not compete with the big roses. I am not familiar with September Morn. I guess that it is a full petaled rose it would be best to keep these older HT's in a class of their own. Again, I have seen and/or judged all kinds of classes where older HT's have been entered. I believe that classes can be created to accommodate all the roses out there whether with an exhibition name or a found rose. It is up to the creativity of the show chair to see that these classes are available for people to enter their roses. In our local rose society (Sierra Foothills RS), we don't mind creating new classes especially if the demand is there to fill them with roses and thus create interest in roses whether modern roses, OGR's found roses, unnamed roses, etc. Baldo | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Intermediate Member Username: Jeri Post Number: 133 Registered: 01-2006 |
Am I wrong in thinking that the judges who do that aren't following the ARS rules? *** *** Ron, do you mean are judges who DQ a "found" rose following the rules? Yes. They are supposed to DQ a rose that has no "Approved Exhibition Name." And, well, rose judges put on their pants one leg at a time like everyone else. By which I mean to say that in my District, we have rose judges who are interested in learning more about different roses, and rose judges who are ... not. In practice, there are judges who are very knowlegeable, and who are interested in every rose they judge. But there are also some who give the impression of being dumb as a post. And judges who seem to have come just for the food. I know (and have clerked for) a judge who judges by a stopwatch, his aim being to finish before anyone else. As for OLD roses -- well, there are still a good many judges in this area who know nothing about Old Roses, and will resist learning about them with the stubborness of my grandpa's old mule, Sasperilla. <g> Jeri | ||
| Ron Robertson (Lemecdutex) Intermediate Member Username: lemecdutex Post Number: 56 Registered: 01-2006 |
"Mel: There are many great old HTs that just don't meet the criteria imposed by judges of modern HTs, but are very appealing to the public. EG. The likes of 'September Morn' and 'Irish Elegance.'" Am I wrong in thinking that the judges who do that aren't following the ARS rules? I thought each rose was supposed to be judged by the standard for the particular rose, NOT just the particular class? --Ron | ||
| Ron Robertson (Lemecdutex) Intermediate Member Username: lemecdutex Post Number: 55 Registered: 01-2006 |
<<mel:>> Am I wrong in thinking that the judges who do that aren't following the ARS rules? I thought each rose was supposed to be judged by the standard for the particular rose, NOT just the particular class? --Ron | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Intermediate Member Username: Jeri Post Number: 132 Registered: 01-2006 |
Why do they need a separate table? So long as there is (adequate) table space for them, I really don't see the point. If somebody wants to bring in a found rose, all they have to do is 'enter' it in that class. It's not a big deal. *** Because Found Roses are not given Approved Exhibition Names. Without an AEN, the rose "cannot be shown." So, without an AEN, the judges will disqualify it. Of course, that hasn't deterred ME from entering them. I have on several occaions entered Found Roses in the regular OGR class for "Victorians." But most people wouldn't do that, I think. Jeri | ||
| Kay Cangemi (Mad_gallica) Intermediate Member Username: mad gallica Post Number: 33 Registered: 01-2006 |
Why do they need a separate table? So long as there is (adequate) table space for them, I really don't see the point. If somebody wants to bring in a found rose, all they have to do is 'enter' it in that class. It's not a big deal. | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Intermediate Member Username: Jeri Post Number: 131 Registered: 01-2006 |
The CT Rose Show tends to be very traditional & dominated by obsessive HT exhibitors (or should I say exhibitionists? LOL). *** That's also true in Southern California, Dan. I guess it might happen someday, but I'm not holding my breath for it. NORTHERN California is a different situation, however, and I think it COULD happen there. And, maybe, if it were done in enough other places, we could see change in this area. (Though as the number of rose-shows-per-year drops, the point sort of becomes moot.) Jeri | ||
| Dan Russo (Dan_russo) Intermediate Member Username: Dan_russo Post Number: 51 Registered: 05-2005 |
Yes, that's right Kay. When someone brings in a OGR foundling, an attempt is first made to assign it to its proper OGR class. The CT Rose Show tends to be very traditional & dominated by obsessive HT exhibitors (or should I say exhibitionists? LOL). I'm usually on the Show Committee but I don't see much chance of a separate table where people can just bring in found roses, though I like the idea. | ||
| Kay Cangemi (Mad_gallica) Intermediate Member Username: mad gallica Post Number: 32 Registered: 01-2006 |
About the only on-line schedule around here is from Connecticut. They don't have a found rose class, per se, they have a catch-all class for anything that doesn't fit anywhere else. I assume that is where the foundlings are supposed to end up, along with the NOIDs. http://www.ctrose.org/rose_show_schedule%202005.htm | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Intermediate Member Username: Jeri Post Number: 130 Registered: 01-2006 |
Baldo, The Fall bloom for Teas, Chinas and Noisettes is glorious in your area. THE BEST. Rich color, great foliage. FWIW, the Pacific Southwest Dist. web site has a number of show schedules. But that won't help much, as there are few classes for Old Roses. :-( Pacific RS has more classes, in spring, but I don't think their schedule gets on line. OTOH, you might contact Phil Shorr. HE told me that there would be provision for Found Roses at some ?Midwest? ?Eastern? events. Jeri | ||
| Baldo Villegas (Sactorose) Intermediate Member Username: sactorose Post Number: 7 Registered: 04-2005 |
Jeri: I have no control of the Sacramento RS Show which is on the last full weekend in April. I am presidente of Sierra Foothills Rose Society and our show is on the Sept 30-Oct 1st this year. I do have control over this show and I can direct that some your suggested classes be added. I have not appointed the Chow Chair yet, but I will in the next week. We usually don't have a chow meeting until June. I would like to see how other groups display OGR's and found roses. I feel that we can add these classes to the chow schedule and make it a fun chow for everyone. If anybody knows of online postings of rose show schedules, let me know. I would like to see what rules they have for these classes and if regular Horticultural Judges judge these classes. Another way of doing this is to assign these classes to judges who are knowledgeable of OGRs and found roses. | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Intermediate Member Username: Jeri Post Number: 127 Registered: 01-2006 |
Another exhibition class could be Old Hybrid Teas, 1945 or before. *** From experience, I strongly suggest that you make it prior to WWII. OTHERWISE, you will get an entire table of Overfed Peace -- whereas it would be far more "eddicashunal" to see things like La France, or September Morn, or Irish Elegance, or Irish Fireflame. (For whatever reason, Irish Fireflame is ecstatically happy here in the Fog Belt. :-) =============== Another thing WE did was, we institued a "runner up" to the Dowager and Victorian Awards. I gather that, years ago, there was a Dowager Queen, King, and Princess, as well as a Victorian Queen, King, and Princess. The remontant OGRs, such as Teas, Chinas, and Noisettes, and even the Bourbons, put on such a grand Fall Display in the Sacramento Area that with some encouragement you could get enough of a turnout to warrant that. It would make my heart go "pity-pat." :-) Jeri | ||
| Merrill Hulse (Kernel) Intermediate Member Username: kernel Post Number: 39 Registered: 09-2004 |
Baldo, Another exhibition class could be Old Hybrid Teas, 1945 or before. You'll remember that I tried that at the San Jose Convention, but no one entered. By setting up that class at little rose shows, members could get used to bringing those roses and later participate in annual rose shows. There are many great old HTs that just don't meet the criteria imposed by judges of modern HTs, but are very appealing to the public. EG. The likes of 'September Morn' and 'Irish Elegance.' | ||
| Kay Cangemi (Mad_gallica) Intermediate Member Username: mad gallica Post Number: 31 Registered: 01-2006 |
?????? At our show, the arrangements are off in the arrangement sections. There are collection challenge classes. While the quality of the roses takes first priority, how well they go together in the carafe is also taken into account. We used to struggle mightily with the shrub collections because we just didn't grow enough of them to select what looked halfway decent together. It was always the best of the leftovers, and usually at least one didn't go. There is a lot in this thread that I just don't understand, and I don't know why. Is it because our show has morphed from a hybrid tea show with other classes to a hardy rose show with other classes? We don't need special tables to blow out the hybrid teas. The hybrid teas need special tables to prove they exist. BTW, we are in DESPERATE need of more OGR and shrub certificates. When the second best stem in the show can't get on the head table, something is wrong. From a competition standpoint, it's just not good. | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Intermediate Member Username: Jeri Post Number: 126 Registered: 01-2006 |
At the Exhibition there is a class for "A Bouquet of Old Garden Roses": 6 stems placed attractively in a 16-oz. water glass provided, either all of the same variety, or 1 each of 6 varieties.(or you could specify 2 each of 3 varieties). Not judged as an arrangement. *** I really LIKE that. :-) Care needs be taken to communicate to judges that it is the roses that are being judged -- NOT the "arrangement." Jeri | ||
| Liesbeth Cooper (Liesbeth) Intermediate Member Username: liesbeth Post Number: 11 Registered: 07-2005 |
The Bermuda Rose Society has a class for "Bermuda Mystery Roses", as well as a class for US "Found Roses", as the ARE imports roses into the island. No quarantine required, as they come with a phyto-sanitary certificate and are bare-root. We have a competitive bench at most of our monthly meetings, which is great preparation for exhibiting in the Annual (Agricultural) Exhibition, to which we invite a foreign judge to judge along with local judges. Roses are displayed effectively in pale-green "Perrier" bottles, which were also used by Odile Masquelier in Lyon at the 8th International HRF Conference! The BRS also stages a "Specimen Bench", a 4-tier stand on which are diplayed as many of the roses grown here as we can locate, arranged in more or less chronological order, from the Species at the top to Moderns on the bottom shelf. These are diplayed in 3 sizes of clear glass bud-vase type containers. It has proven to be a popular and much-admired teaching tool for the public. People love to look them all over and plan which ones they have to have! Then there is a class for "Bloom in a Bowl" (bloom only, no stem, no foliage), great when we have had high winds and the foliage is lousy, but the bloom gorgeous! At the Exhibition there is a class for "A Bouquet of Old Garden Roses": 6 stems placed attractively in a 16-oz. water glass provided, either all of the same variety, or 1 each of 6 varieties.(or you could specify 2 each of 3 varieties). Not judged as an arrangement. A place is reserved for "Who am I?" (Unidentified roses). | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Intermediate Member Username: Jeri Post Number: 125 Registered: 01-2006 |
Malcolm's suggestion is great. It's something I'd love to do myself (if our rose society was still doing rose shows, that is). A display like that could be done with jars, the way we do the Celebration Of Old Roses. It would be kewl. Baldo, if you're able to really ramp up the OGR presence in that manner for your show, let me know. Maybe I can persuade some of the Heritage folks up there to bring Found Roses. The Sacramento City Cemetery should be in big bloom then. That one place could fill your tables. You could have roses there that have NEVER been seen at an ARS event. :-) Jeri | ||
| Malcolm M Manners (Mmanners) Intermediate Member Username: mmanners Post Number: 13 Registered: 10-2004 |
When the Lakeland Imperial Rose Society (now defunct) used to have their "standard" rose shows, the Central Florida Heritage Rose Society often had an educational table, at which we displayed specimens of various OGR classes, with a sign describing them, their history, etc. That area was not judged. But of course, there were the judged classes in the show, where many of the same roses appeared. It drew a lot of interest. | ||
| Baldo Villegas (Sactorose) Intermediate Member Username: sactorose Post Number: 6 Registered: 04-2005 |
Jeri: I would appreciate any other suggestion. Our rose sho will be the last week in September 30 and October 1st. We'll probably be meeting in early August to nail down the rose show schedule. Please email me directly if you have must have classes! rosebug | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Intermediate Member Username: Jeri Post Number: 123 Registered: 01-2006 |
Weeellll . . . OK. I'd LOVE to see that Found Rose class -- competitive or not. Put a sign on the table, explaining to rose show visitors what these roses ARE -- how they come to be there. Found in old pastures, cemeteries ... And that many of them are once again in commerce. I'd LOVE to see a sign on the regular Old Rose classes, explaining what Old Roses ARE. (Maybe one with the Shrub Roses, too, explaining what they are NOT.) When we chaired rose shows, we used to do that. I love to see a class for "Informal Bouquet" of Old Roses. That's the way most people use 'em in vases, you know. Not formal arrangements -- just nice -- PLONK. I'll keep thinking. :-) Jeri | ||
| Baldo Villegas (Sactorose) Intermediate Member Username: sactorose Post Number: 5 Registered: 04-2005 |
Hay Jeri: I want some more ideas like what just suggested at a rose show. This is in regard to found roses and maybe other OGR's that can and cannot be shown. What other classes or displays can be added to rose shows? Baldo | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Intermediate Member Username: Jeri Post Number: 122 Registered: 01-2006 |
Jeri, I believe our newsletter editor, Cheryl Clarke, has been in touch with you for HRG but if you don't have our information yet, let me know and I'll send it on to you. *** *** Yes, she has, and I need to pass it along. I'm behind, again. I find myself in the enviable position at Seattle Rose Society of being encouraged to bring in all the data I can, ranging from personal presence at events like the Flower and Garden show and pruning demonstrations to supplementing their literature. *** *** Oh Sue! That's WONDERFUL news! You know what? Encourage them to add some sort of table for display of Found Roses -- not having an Approved Exhibition Name. That includes wonderful roses such as "Grandmother's Hat," "Secret Garden Musk Climber," "Placerville White Noisette," and many others. ARS IS trying to find a way to get these roses seen -- but societies in my area are unwilling. YOUR ARS Society seems to be more open to new ideas, so perhaps you can really do something here. If we can be helpful at the HRG end, let us know! Jeri Jennings | ||
| stephen scanniello (Steprose) Intermediate Member Username: steprose Post Number: 260 Registered: 01-2006 |
you go girl!! | ||
| Sue Hopkins (Seattlesuze) Intermediate Member Username: SeattleSuze Post Number: 12 Registered: 01-2006 |
Anne, I was delighted to hear from you. We're so looking forward to your talk on the 26th in Kent Library which was actually a motivating factor in several of the new memberships I gathered. Do you have photos online of your garden? It would be such fun to preview. Jeri, I believe our newsletter editor, Cheryl Clarke, has been in touch with you for HRG but if you don't have our information yet, let me know and I'll send it on to you. Thanks so much for the information. Stephen, I'll get in touch with Kent about adding our group to the HRF links. And thank you for the competitive banter, SS and JJ. You made me laugh about the politics of rose passion. After my earlier grousing about ARS lack of responsiveness to heritage roses information, I find myself in the enviable position at Seattle Rose Society of being encouraged to bring in all the data I can, ranging from personal presence at events like the Flower and Garden show and pruning demonstrations to supplementing their literature. My work's cut out for me - and we WILL integrate! LOL Sue | ||
| stephen scanniello (Steprose) Intermediate Member Username: steprose Post Number: 259 Registered: 01-2006 |
I'm ready! ss | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Intermediate Member Username: Jeri Post Number: 120 Registered: 01-2006 |
HRF has tried in the past to create a stronger bond with the Heritage Roses Group, only to meet with resistance from many of the founders of this group. We're still interested, and many of our members are members of both *** Let's work a little harder on that Sweetie. :-) Times change. So do people. Jeri Jennings Ed., Heritage Roses Groups "Rose Letter" | ||
| stephen scanniello (Steprose) Intermediate Member Username: steprose Post Number: 257 Registered: 01-2006 |
Hi Sue, Our website has a link page with a few rose groups listed: Heritage Roses Group, RogersRoses, Huntington Botanical, Helpmefind. We would be interested in more, feel free to contact kent krugh (his email is on the link page). HRF has tried in the past to create a stronger bond with the Heritage Roses Group, only to meet with resistance from many of the founders of this group. We're still interested, and many of our members are members of both. The same is true for the American Rose Society, except that over the past couple of years we have indeed joined forces. One of our joint projects is the Heritage Rose Foundation Garden in the American Rose Center at Shreveport. stephen | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Intermediate Member Username: Jeri Post Number: 118 Registered: 01-2006 |
Hi Sue! You are welcome to have a relationship with Heritage Roses Groups -- informal tho we are. I think anything we can do to increase communication and cooperation between the various Heritage organizations benefits all of us. Jeri Jennings Ed., HRG "Rose Letter" | ||
| Anne Belovich (Anne) Intermediate Member Username: Anne Post Number: 10 Registered: 01-2006 |
Hi Sue! I live in Stanwood, Washington (north of Everett). I belong to Seattle Rose Society and Heritage Roses Northwest. I don't attend meetings very often so I probably haven't met you. I'm scheduled to give a talk at Heritage Roses Northwest on the 26th of this month. I hope to see you there. | ||
| Sue Hopkins (Seattlesuze) Intermediate Member Username: SeattleSuze Post Number: 11 Registered: 01-2006 |
Hi Stephen (and Kent?) I'm just back from the Northwest Flower and Garden Show where I worked three days at the Seattle Rose Society booth. There was a tremendous interest in OGRs and our local society (Heritage Roses Northwest) increased its membership by 10%. Is there a place on the HRF website where we can list organizations throughout the country? Or is there a way for the organization to affiliate with HRF? Thanks so much. Sue |