| Author | Message | ||
     Allison Strong (Countess_wildrose) Bug Squisher Username: countess_wildrose Post Number: 232 Registered: 01-2006 |
I thought it was about time to revisit the whole bands into pots idea. I have some bands that have spent the summer in pots, a few have doubled or even ttripled in size since March, and a couple of very slow growers seem to be just sitting there in stasis. The growers are going into the ground this week. Temps in my area are 70's in the day and 50's at night right now, and I think it will be pleasant to be planting, and to give the little root systems a chance to snuggle in before a hard freeze, usually in late December here. Now the slower growers have left me undecided. Part of me wants to go ahead and put that Clementina Carbonieri into the ground, and let her settle in for the winter, but I have a wee, niggling little doubt about it. It is about a foot tall now, and not any branching to mention happened this year. Any thoughts about her? | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Supreme Crown Gall ! Username: Jeri Post Number: 702 Registered: 01-2006 |
Bill -- Enjoy your visit to the Inn. You'll LOVE the Teas and Chinas there, and I know you are going to come away determined to plant some of them. You NEED Tea Roses. Jeri | ||
| William Cartwright (Bill) Powdery Mildew Username: Bill Post Number: 39 Registered: 06-2006 |
I got very excited reading about the "Celebration Of Old Roses". It's happening on my birthday weekend (mines the day before) and I thought...even though we have plans..I'll shift them around. I did think: why would they be having this event in Cerritos??? Odd choice thought I...but I was game. Then finally it dawns on me...the event is in El Cerrito. El Cerrito, as in next to Albany, as in two hops over from Berkeley. D'oh! I hope you all have a wonderful time. That day I'm scheduled to pick up some baby chicks (Rhode Ide Island Red bantams) at the Trading Post Feed store out near you Jeri, and we are going to the Stagecoach Inn to check out some climate appropriate Old Roses. | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Supreme Crown Gall ! Username: Jeri Post Number: 692 Registered: 01-2006 |
Oh, I'm just happy that you've got it Bill. Now, to further corrupt you, I'm going to start urging you to get up North for a visit to the Sacramento City Cemetery, the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden, and the Celebration Of Old Roses. <veg> Jeri | ||
| William Cartwright (Bill) Powdery Mildew Username: Bill Post Number: 34 Registered: 06-2006 |
Jeri, this structure (I'm pretty sure) will be metal. I've been looking into how best to bend and weld rebar (among other options). I'm under no illusions how much support it would take. And I'd like to have it get huge. Seeing the picture of yours made be go: Yikes! But it also prompted the decision to move it (in my mental plan) a much better location. So thank you for that!!! Bill | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Supreme Crown Gall ! Username: Jeri Post Number: 691 Registered: 01-2006 |
Bill, I thought about what you said, about putting the SGMCs near a pair of orange trees, and that sounds beautiful. You're right -- The fragrance possibilities are awesome. I do caution you to use a very sturdy arbor. You probably know what happens to wood, in CA, when it is in contact with earth -- so I'd advise against a wooden arbor unless it's built like a Sherman Tank. <g> We got a hefty metal one from Harbor Freight (they have an outlet up here in Camarillo) and flanked it with two upright trellises. The whole thing is facing West, in front of a canvas-topped gazebo. In about three years, I'll be looking to see pix of yours. Oh -- Descanso prunes theirs a LOT HARDER than we do -- or would. They seem to stand up to it, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. Jeri | ||
| William Cartwright (Bill) Powdery Mildew Username: Bill Post Number: 33 Registered: 06-2006 |
Mel, The Secret Garden Musk is coming from Rogue Valley. Will be arriving late this week. And yes, I've seen pictures of Jeri's...they can be monsters. But I have a nice long span where they ought to be able to go fairly wild. The one at Descanso Gardens was still under control (as of last spring).My wife is doing a "research" trip to Descanso tomorrow and I'll have her check in on it's progress. What a wonderful clove sent this rose has. And when the flowers play off the Orange tree flowers it will make for something magical, I think. Bill | ||
| Mel Hulse (Kernel) Bug Squisher Username: kernel Post Number: 164 Registered: 09-2004 |
William, Don't let those SGMCs fool you. They start slow. It'll be the 3rd year before they take off then... Stand back! The good thing is that it doesn't mind pruning. Just to keep track of who is offering it, where did you get it? | ||
| William Cartwright (Bill) Powdery Mildew Username: Bill Post Number: 32 Registered: 06-2006 |
Anita, thanks for the "contrarian" advice (I tend to be a "contrarian" myself). Today, we a being hit by a strong heat-wave...and the neighborhood talk is we are due for a brutal summer--and last year was scorching. So for toady at least I'm happy my beauties are enjoying some relative cool in filtered shade instead of being out in the full blast. Allison, believe it or not I got friendly with the "horse-people" at the feed store and have arranged to start picking up fresh manure for the back quarter. So yes...I've gone nuts! As for roses I'll only mention a couple that won't upset Jeri (those for another thread) ;-) We got a couple "Secret Garden Musk" climbers (does anyone really need 2???!!!). We first thought of using these over an arbor that will be the entrance to the err...Secret Garden. But then we thought we have a deep focal point in the yard between two old orange trees, where a long arch or boyer of Secret Garden Musk would be incredibly beautiful (I think). So for the moment, at least, I ordered a couple "Gloire de Dijon" climbers for the entrance arbor. This could change as I hope to build a variety of pillars, festoons, and arbors, so it will be used somewhere. . I tend to love climbers, and "Gloire de Dijon" is a beauty (I know again I press my luck). No worries...I will have some Noisettes as well. Jeri, my taste for Teas and Chinas is still highly "underdeveloped" but that Arcadia Louisiana Tea (judging by photographs) a rather pleasing rose. Still hope for me yet ;-) Bill | ||
| Anita Clevenger (Clevenan) Greenhorn Username: clevenan Post Number: 4 Registered: 03-2007 |
It's a little late now, Bill, since you've potted up your roses - but I need to give a minority view. In the Sacramento Cemetery, we are much better off putting new roses (if they have good root systems) into the ground rather than potting them up. It's because of our conditions. We have well-drained, sandy loam, we mulch heavily, and the roses are well-separated with very little competition. We put low fencing around the new roses to keep away careless folks. We don't have much problem with critters such as voles or gophers, and no rabbit or deer to worry about. We find that the roses do much better than being held in pots over our blisteringly hot summer, especially since we don't always care for them regularly. All of that water going through the pots washes the nutrients right through, so be sure to fertilize (but don't overdo it) all through the summer, until you plant them out. Anita | ||
| Allison Strong (Countess_wildrose) Bug Squisher Username: countess_wildrose Post Number: 206 Registered: 01-2006 |
I'll send you an email, Jeri. Yes, very interested in that rose! | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Supreme Crown Gall ! Username: Jeri Post Number: 690 Registered: 01-2006 |
Allison -- How are you with cuttings? I have a maturing Arcadia Louisiana Tea, and could take cuttings from her, if you're interested. She's such a nice rose, I'd like to see her spread around some. For that matter, I could probably bring 'em to you, when we head for TX in the Fall. Let me know. Jeri Jennings | ||
| Allison Strong (Countess_wildrose) Bug Squisher Username: countess_wildrose Post Number: 205 Registered: 01-2006 |
Bill, your words "the next stage" are enough to make a gardener salivate. Please post threads as you go, let us know your plans and your progress! Sod busting, hmmm? The best way to start is with the right dirt! Good job! I have a darling friend who is hyper-organized, very scientific, who cringes at my often hap-hazard way of doing things, that tried to help me get started right. As the months and now years have unfolded, I have regretted not doing a better job of site preparation first, as she lectured me that I must do! (Of course, I live with the consequences, and it is not a disaster by any means: we have a nice garden in progress here.) But, I keep remembering that she TOLD me we really needed to rent a big tiller and till in a couple of truckoads of manure and loam into our sandy soil before we even laid out the "floor plan" for the garden. Yes, I do still improve the soil with the good stuff at the surface level, (can't disturb the already planted rose roots, or the irrigation system), but how much better Could it have been? Sounds like you are off to the right start! What roses have you ordered? | ||
| William Cartwright (Bill) Powdery Mildew Username: Bill Post Number: 30 Registered: 06-2006 |
So I've taken the advice to heart and I've "pottted up my beauties. So the bad news is I've delayed my planting awhile. The good news is, since I've got to keep plants in pots for for some time anyway, I figured I might as well get some ordered for "the next stage"., A big planting area in the back where I can go wild. And then since I ordered roses...I figured I better get busy sod-busting and clearing and planning and dreaming of the garden to come. Very exciting! Tired, sore, bloody...and till my good soak...very dirty. But with a big smile in my face. Thanks for all the good advice folks. I really appreciate it! Bill | ||
| Allison Strong (Countess_wildrose) Bug Squisher Username: countess_wildrose Post Number: 204 Registered: 01-2006 |
Bill, let that be a valuable lesson for you: your son is obviously very observant, and doesn't miss much! Be careful what you allow him to overhear! Kids have an alarming and embarrassing penchant for repeating things we say, out of context, and at the most inopportune moments! Beware! Snickering with evil memories, Allison | ||
| William Cartwright (Bill) Powdery Mildew Username: Bill Post Number: 28 Registered: 06-2006 |
Thanks Steven and Fara, William has Italian heritage too (from his mothers side). And Allison your kind words about brought a tear to my eye. Funny story. We went to the Huntington Gardens this weekend to visit the rose garden. At some point my wife said to me: "Look at the thorns on this one." Indeed, they were quite impressive. Then we had a little chatter between ourselves, where I explained that a rosarian might call them "prickles" as prickles and thorns are technically distinct. Well...about 45 minutes later, William, who hadn't really been included in our little conversation, exclaims: "Mommy...look at prickles on this rose." Me and Carole (Mommy) just burst out laughing. What a kid. | ||
| Allison Strong (Countess_wildrose) Bug Squisher Username: countess_wildrose Post Number: 203 Registered: 01-2006 |
Lol! Your Italian grandma sounds like a hoot! If your family is typical of the Italian American families I know and love, there were hoards and droves of kids all underfoot, everywhere! What a happy, loud, boisterous bunch of friends! I just received a wonderful package in the mail a week ago of my long awaited Clementina Carbonieri (speaking of Italians!) band from Vintage. It was a very small thing, one main trunk the size of a chopstick, about 5" tall, several leaflets at the top with some branching, the trunk is nicely hardened, and it is healthy as can be, just small, like a band usually is. For many of us here in Texas that are so used to getting more mature plants from the Antique Rose Emporium which are ready to plant out in the garden, a band is a let-down, at first. (My first order of several bands was alarming to me, and I wondered if they would all live!) But there are certain roses that you cannot get locally, and it is worth the extra effort to care for bands in order to have a desired plant. I made the huge mistake of planting these little guys out in the garden instead of growing them some first. Thomasville Old Gold met a weedeater, and was hacked back to the ground. You know what? The silly thing survived it, and although it is still small, it's doing fine this spring. "Arcadia Louisiana Tea" was not so fortunate. I think a deer probably got it, or a mole... it simply disappeared from its hole. The others from that shipment are doing fine. But it taught me the lesson I needed to learn. Follow the instructions, pot them up for a few months or a year, and then plant them out when they are large enough to make it in the wide world on their own! Clementina is in a 2 gallon black nursery pot (an ARE leftover, no doubt!) taking this summer to grow some. As I said, she is a healthy looking thing, and with a little TLC she will be ready for prime time in a couple of seasons. I keep my potted plants up close to the house where I can check on them easily and water frequently in our summer heat. I am looking forward to "Angel's Camp Tea" and "Arcadia Louisiana Tea" coming back in stock at Vintage! They will get this same special treatment when they arrive, too. Bill, planting your bands in pots would be an ideal way for your son to see the growth up close for a while. You could take some pictures of him next to the pots, and then in 6 months, do it again. He will enjoy the differences you'll be able to point out! Allison | ||
| stephen scanniello (Steprose) Supreme Crown Gall ! Username: steprose Post Number: 875 Registered: 01-2006 |
my grandmother (italian side) hung the rotten cigar butts in the garden, kept the japanese beetles and endless stream of grandchildren away from her roses. I find that if I plant the band sized roses directly in the garden, they get lost, then don't get the extra TLC they need. | ||
| Fara Shimbo (Fara_shimbo) Bug Squisher Username: fara_shimbo Post Number: 192 Registered: 04-2006 |
I got started in roses because of my "Nonna Bella" when I helped her in the garden, and she bought me a "Sterling Silver" after I begged her for it because it was advertized as "blue." So now you know who to blame! (Uh oh, just looked out the window and there seems to be a forest fire just west of here...) Back on topic, I plant all my 4 inch bands in newly prepared beds and they always do very well, for what it's worth. | ||
| Allison Strong (Countess_wildrose) Bug Squisher Username: countess_wildrose Post Number: 202 Registered: 01-2006 |
That's right, Stephen! My two year old granson is my delight... he hasn't shown much interest yet in the garden, but he is not here as often as I would like. There's still time! (He does like "Maggie" though. I am not sure if it's the color, texture, or fragrance that attracts him. He looks, he sniffs, and he caresses the petals! He's like a small bee...) Allison | ||
| stephen scanniello (Steprose) Supreme Crown Gall ! Username: steprose Post Number: 874 Registered: 01-2006 |
grandparents make good teachers, too.... | ||
| Allison Strong (Countess_wildrose) Bug Squisher Username: countess_wildrose Post Number: 201 Registered: 01-2006 |
Oh, Bill, that is Wonderful, with a capital W !!! There is nothing as precious in the whole world as the company of a child, interested and curious about all that you do! Too often, these perfect, teachable moments are wasted on frazzled, harrassed, tense parents... The heavens will surely smile on you for your dedication to the task of fatherhood! Many times, children only learn from grandparents in the garden, because those are the ones with the patience to answer 2000 questions in a row and demonstrate the answers with a hands on approach! It is exceptional that you are seeking knowledge for yourself, and while processing it, you are passing it along to your son. And he is at the age for his best learning opportunities right now! He is learning the language of the earth at your knee. There is nothing more important. Allison | ||
| William Cartwright (Bill) Powdery Mildew Username: Bill Post Number: 27 Registered: 06-2006 |
***It'll take the rest of your life and then some! Yea...I think I'm already too old. Fortunately, I have a not-quite-yet 3 year old son (William III) who is starting early. He's so cute, I'll ask him: "William, what do you think of think of this rose?" And he'll say: "Oh Daddy it's so beautiful. I love it, and Mommy will love it." Breaks my heart really. And he's a good little helper when I'm out dead-heading the climbers. "Daddy, you missed one down here". But you can see now why I want to make sure I pass on the right information. Heavy responsibility this :-) Bill | ||
| Mel Hulse (Kernel) Bug Squisher Username: kernel Post Number: 162 Registered: 09-2004 |
It is so wonderful to be able to interface with such knowledgeable rosarians, I hope you'll indulge me one more round on the pot issue, as I'm really trying to get a whole grasp on rose culture. ***It'll take the rest of your life and then some! Why are pots inherently better? Is it because they prevent competition from other root systems? What if the roses are going into "virgin beds" where there will be no competition, and companion planting would wait till the roses were established. Would that even things out on this front, or not? ***Yes, all other things being equal. Does the physical limitations of the pot somehow encourage root formation. Does being somewhat bound help? ***Not necessarily because of that alone. Or is it that "potting soil" is so loose and fluffy? Would a really well prepared "ground hole" make up for it to some degree? ***Yes, all other things being equal. Does the fact that black plastic pots heat up spur root growth? *** Yes, if kept moist. Could this be a detriment in climes with 100 degree summers...or is it still a postitive? ***Still a positive. Roses like heat even tho' blooms shut down at those temps. Or it it some other factor that I'm missing? Partly it is because you can give the young plants closer attention such as moving them into and out of the shade depending on how they look. All the factors that Jeri mentioned also apply. Sure, given zone 10 and the factors you mentioned, planting in a well prepared, physically safe, sunny location can work out just fine. Or am I thinking too much??? ;-) Never! Questions such as yours get us all thinking and exchanging ideas. I pot little ones up, myself, because I can't meet all the criteria you mention in the Heritage Garden. Da Kernel | ||
| William Cartwright (Bill) Powdery Mildew Username: Bill Post Number: 26 Registered: 06-2006 |
It is so wonderful to be able to interface with such knowledgeable rosarians, I hope you'll indulge me one more round on the pot issue, as I'm really trying to get a whole grasp on rose culture. Why are pots inherently better? Is it because they prevent competition from other root systems? What if the roses are going into "virgin beds" where there will be no competition, and companion planting would wait till the roses were established. Would that even things out on this front, or not? Does the physical limitations of the pot somehow encourage root formation. Does being somewhat bound help? Or is it that "potting soil" is so loose and fluffy? Would a really well prepared "ground hole" make up for it to some degree? Does the fact that black plastic pots heat up spur root growth? Could this be a detriment in climes with 100 degree summers...or is it still a postitive? Or it it some other factor that I'm missing? Or am I thinking too much??? ;-) Thanks again for all the help you all have been. My garden is thriving and expanding, and every day I have new visions as I'm out ending my beauties. Cheers, Bill | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Supreme Crown Gall ! Username: Jeri Post Number: 686 Registered: 01-2006 |
is the reason for pots because pots are inherently better for young root systems to establish themselves? Do they grow faster? *** In our experience, yes. They do. Or do you "pot" because you don't want tender little plants stepped on? *** That's another good reason. Tiny plants respond poorly to large boots, not to mention large, gopher-hunting canines. Or so you can move them in and out of the sun? *** OH! TOO MUCH WORK! Jeri J. | ||
| julie wawirka (Albertine) Bug Squisher Username: albertine Post Number: 9 Registered: 01-2006 |
I've had good results from planting bands out in the vegetable garden for a season, in a row where they won't get shaded out. That way they don't get water stressed, which is for me a problem with potted things in general - I never seem to get to them often enough. | ||
| stephen scanniello (Steprose) Supreme Crown Gall ! Username: steprose Post Number: 869 Registered: 01-2006 |
yes, excellent advice from Ms Hopkins. I must say. No doubt she consults with her resident gardeners, Ms. Ballthrow and Mr. Glamour. | ||
| stephen scanniello (Steprose) Supreme Crown Gall ! Username: steprose Post Number: 868 Registered: 01-2006 |
for me, transferring them to larger pots is to give the plant a chance to grow stronger roots and to gain some size so that they can be of a better size for competing with other plants and to get them through the winter | ||
| Sue Hopkins (Seattlesuze) Bug Squisher Username: seattlesuze Post Number: 67 Registered: 01-2006 |
Wherever you water, that's the best spot for your roses. You might want to consider potting them into 1-gallon pots and then burying them in their spots. Many of them seem happier in smallish containers while they're developing their root systems. You can let them loose in the fall after the heat fades away. | ||
| William Cartwright (Bill) Powdery Mildew Username: Bill Post Number: 25 Registered: 06-2006 |
Sandra, these would be bands from this spring. Some from Uncommon Rose (arrived) and some from Vintage (due next week). Today is already way into the 90's, so I'm praying things will cool off. Steven & Jeri, is the reason for pots because pots are inherently better for young root systems to establish themselves? Do they grow faster? Or do you "pot" because you don't want tender little plants stepped on? Or so you can move them in and out of the sun? Or some other reason? Sue, knowing myself, roses planted in the ground will be well watered. And I dig really enormously large holes. Which I well work with lots of compost. So "in-ground" roses at my place get a good start. Stuff in pots I tend to be a little more thoughtless of (I hate to admit it but it's true). And that could be a disaster when temps go into the 100's for days on end. Granted, if I do "po"t I'll redouble my efforts to keep them watered...but then when could I plant them? October? Thanks again for the words of wisdom. Bill | ||
| Sue Hopkins (Seattlesuze) Bug Squisher Username: seattlesuze Post Number: 66 Registered: 01-2006 |
I have planted directly in the ground when the garden was brand new, expecting that the roses would do fine; however, after losing a few, I've changed my approach and now pot up to the next larger size pot so that the roots will grow in a protected container. I think it depends on the root system you're seeing and how protected your plants would be in the garden versus how consistently you'd keep them watered and cared for in pots. Whatever you decide to do, let us know what happens. May you be blessed with a thousand new roses! Sue | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Supreme Crown Gall ! Username: Jeri Post Number: 684 Registered: 01-2006 |
We pot them up as well, here in Southern California. Jeri | ||
| stephen scanniello (Steprose) Supreme Crown Gall ! Username: steprose Post Number: 867 Registered: 01-2006 |
I need to pot them up, here in New Jersey, giving them a chance to grow on a bit before I plant them in the ground. | ||
| Sandra Burket (Sburket) Bug Squisher Username: SBurket Post Number: 28 Registered: 10-2004 |
Bill, I recently bought several roses from VG, and did follow their recommendation to pot up the roses. However, in the next couple of weeks I will plant them out in the garden. I'm also in a very warm climate, Zone 9, and waiting much later than that is risking a period of very hot temperatures. I have no doubt they will do fine, they arrived healthy, and a perfect size for transplanting.....thanks Gregg. Maybe the potting up recommendations are more suitable for those living in cooler climates, and enjoy much cooler nighttime temperatures in late spring, and early summer. If the bands you are considering planting out now were purchased last spring, then I wouldn't hesitate planting them out now, and forego the pots. Sandra | ||
| William Cartwright (Bill) Powdery Mildew Username: Bill Post Number: 24 Registered: 06-2006 |
Just wondering on how you all treat 4" bands. I've seen some suggestions for potting up the roses for a couple months before planting, to let them build some size. I could do that....but my fear here here where I live is...in a couple month it could be really HOT. Perhaps we could have some cool "June gloom", but just as easily it could get to 100, and I try not to plant anything in blazing heat. I just went ahead and planted the few bands I got last spring (my first experience with bands) and they did fine. So I'm tempted to by-pass the pots. But before I do, I'm wondering what are the trade offs of "in-ground" vs "in-pot" planting? Thanks to all for your wealth of knowledge. Bill |