| Author | Message | ||
     ann peck (Anntn6b) Bug Squisher Username: anntn6b Post Number: 140 Registered: 01-2006 |
Linda, Your catalogs are especially wonderful. On a subscription search engine that UT belongs to I found the following from The Horticultural Register and Gardener's Magazine of March 1 1836, in part of a multipart article written by T. Rivers- based on his printed catalog: "George the Fourth (Rivers') velv'tcrimson Large and very double" and further down: "in this division are some fo the most beautiful roses known, and among them, George the Fourth which I raised from a seed may rank among the best, these are also all very robust and will grow and bloom well in the most unfavorable rose soils." And this is why the catalogs are such an irreplacable view to the past. Ann | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Rowdy Rosarian Username: Jeri Post Number: 446 Registered: 01-2006 |
Linda, it is an HCh, so it is not remontant. In fact, WE don't even have enough chill for the average HCh -- tho perhaps you get more chill hours than we do. Jeri Jennings | ||
| Linda Buzzell-Saltzman (Linda) Bug Squisher Username: linda Post Number: 19 Registered: 01-2006 |
Kent, do you know if it's a good repeat bloomer? Any fragrance? If so, it would certainly be welcome at the front of my borders, whatever its name... | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Rowdy Rosarian Username: Jeri Post Number: 445 Registered: 01-2006 |
The question, I think, is whether or not this rose is REALLY Rivers George Fourth. It seems that in 1920, there was some doubt about whether or not it really still existed -- so I'd love to hear the story of its journy between 1920 and 1970. Where it was found, how-verified, etc. Jeri | ||
| Henry Kuska (Henry_kuska) Bug Squisher Username: Henry_Kuska Post Number: 6 Registered: 01-2006 |
I have a copy of the May 1970 planting plan for the Wooster garden. Rivers' George IV was to be planted in section E. Chinensis at location E-9. It is listed as "Deep Crimson". The Fall 1964 - Spring 1965 issue of Joseph J. Kern's rose catalogue lists on page 9 the following: "Rivers' George IV -- Lg., loosely dbl., deep crimson, 1820, F --- $2.00" (the F means fragrant). | ||
| Linda Buzzell-Saltzman (Linda) Bug Squisher Username: linda Post Number: 18 Registered: 01-2006 |
Oops! Sorry, that should be 1820 of course. | ||
| Linda Buzzell-Saltzman (Linda) Bug Squisher Username: linda Post Number: 17 Registered: 01-2006 |
The 1968-69 Kern catalog description is "Lg., loosely dbl., deep crimson, 1920, F ...$2.50" Wish that's all that roses cost now! | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Rowdy Rosarian Username: Jeri Post Number: 444 Registered: 01-2006 |
Kent -- I was just discussing this with Anita Clevenger. I mentioned that Mrs. Keays talked about this rose. She said: "Some very fine varieties ... originated in England, among which was the famous Rivers' George the Fourth, a rose we always seem to be getting but have not got, unless we have found it this past summer. Hope arises that we have. Every colored person with a few roses in her front yard is sure one of hers is "Georgie Four," so we are pulled along on an expectancy which every time, so far, has taken a crash. This year we saw, in two gardens, a Hybrid China with blooms of a glowing crimson, shaded with some purple, large and very tightly full, cupped in a perfect cup, with good lasting texture. This may be George the Fourth. Hope is up again. One plant of this was in the old rose-garden of Rachel Hicks at "The Trap," an old garden once beautifully planted with fine roses, among which were the two Teas, Bon Silene and Sombreuil, descibed above, Old Blush China, R. microphylla rubra, Safrano, Paul Neyron, the Ayrshire Ruga, and Rachel Hicks' red Hybrid China, possibly Fulgens. This old place, "The Trap," was for years a gentleman's plantation. The old house stands on a wide terrace supported by a stone wall which ancient ivy covers. Below the terrace the path through the center with paths and borders and center beds on either side. At the end of the path is another walled drop leading to the wide space filled with beautiful trees, through which an oval, grass-grown driveway curves. Even now, neglected of necessity but unspoiled, the splendid possibilities of restoration are alluring. Rachel is so much a rose-lover that she parts with bushes reluctantly, and then only when she has duplicates.! From her strong bushes she gives cuttings willingly. This makes us feel that we must have had George the Fourth and lost it, or that we have a plant which has not bloomed." ------------------- Rivers himself mentions crimson-purple shoots (new growth, I'd assume) and says that it puts up ten-foot-long canes. Jeri | ||
| Kent Krugh (Kkrugh) Board Administrator Username: kkrugh Post Number: 66 Registered: 09-2004 |
What a wonderful collection. Thank your friend again and take them out to dinner! It is interesting that you noted 'Rivers' George IV' in the Kern catalogs. Two weeks ago I visited the Garden of Roses of Legend and Romance in Wooster, Ohio. This garden was planted with roses largely supplied by Kerns. Growing there was a plant labled 'Rivers's George IV'. A healthy plant about 2-3 foot tall. Pretty good for a zone 5 garden...if it really is RG IV. Here are photos I took of it. Does this fit the description?   | ||
| Linda Buzzell-Saltzman (Linda) Bug Squisher Username: linda Post Number: 16 Registered: 01-2006 |
A friend gave me a treasure trove of old rose related books and materials from a library that was thinning its offerings. I wanted to post some of the titles here as you all will probably know if they have value or not... * Old catalog from "The Lester Rose Gardens" in Watsonville. No date but posted with 1 cent stamp. Has a section called "The Old Roses" that list everything from HP Black Prince to Eglantine plus "Tried and True Roses" including Lady Hillingdon and many, many I have never heard of before. * 2 copies of "A Book About Roses" by S. Reynolds Hole, 1892 and 1895. Hardback. * "The Charm of Old Roses" by Nancy Steen, 1966. Hardback. * "My Friend the Rose" by Francis E. Lester, 1942. Hardback. * Catalogs from Joseph J Kern Rose Nursery, Mentor, Ohio 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971 Such interesting stuff. For example a China called Rivers' George IV, 1820, is offered for 2.50 and is described as large, loosely double, deep crimson and fragrant. *"Edwardian Roses" Peter Beales, a smallish booklet, no date * "Roses of Monterey" by Francis E. Lester (did he donate his books to this library, I wonder?)A booklet. No date but looks pretty old * "Rose Culture in California" by H.M. Butterfield, 1950. Put out by UC Berkeley. Booklet. * "Roses of Yesterday" 1950-51, The Lester Rose Gardens "Old Fashioned, Rare, Unusual" Catalog with fairly detailed descriptions. * "Roses of Yesterday and Today" 1971,1974 Tillotson's Roses of Watsonville, CA. Detailed catalogues. * "The Rose Garden" by Otto Friedrich, 1971. Hardback. * "The Art of Cooking with Roses" by Jean Gordon, 1968. Paperback. * "The Old Shrub Roses" Graham Stuart Thomas, 1957. Hardback. * "Redoute Roses" Frank J Anderson, 1981. Paperback. * "The Rose Anthology" H.L.V. Fletcher 1963. Hardback. * "The Pocket Encyclopedia of Roses in Color" 1963. Hardback. Modern, shrub, climbers, miniatures. Looking forward to hearing all your thoughts on this stash... Linda Buzzell-Saltzman |