| Author | Message | ||
     Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Supreme Crown Gall ! Username: Jeri Post Number: 592 Registered: 01-2006 |
Linda -- That's why they call 'em "Evergreen" Roses. <g> Jeri | ||
| Linda Buzzell-Saltzman (Linda) Bug Squisher Username: Linda Post Number: 46 Registered: 01-2006 |
Now that we've had our below-freezing night temps, I'm really seeing which roses are "deciduous" and which aren't. For example, 'Iceberg' has dropped its leaves and is basically a shrub of twigs for the first time, other roses are showing real winter color I've never seen before and 'Mutabilis' has gorgeous, prolific bright green leaves and buds too. No way is that rose deciduous... I've never seen roses classed quite this way, or by chill factor either, so thanks, Ron, Jeri and everyone for your thoughts. On the chill factor thing, we've also learned that reported chill factor limits on fruit trees aren't always accurate. We were told 'Gravenstein' apples would grow here in Santa Barbara, but then found out a friend is growing one successfully. I guess rules are made to be broken :-) | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Supreme Crown Gall ! Username: Jeri Post Number: 591 Registered: 01-2006 |
Ron, if I thought this weather would be typical of our future winters, I'd be planting Gallicas -- but I don't think we're there yet. OTOH, we're looking forward to seeing what our other sorts of roses will do. I assure you that this freeze we had, while it damaged brugmansias, and froze the remaining leaves on plumerias, has not affected the Teas and Chinas here at all. They're still happily blooming! | ||
| Ron Robertson (Lemecdutex) Bug Squisher Username: lemecdutex Post Number: 82 Registered: 01-2006 |
Jeri, Too bad you didn't get a bunch of gallicas planted this year, eh? (Just kidding) What I really wonder is if this is going to be the future for us, longer and colder winters. It is strange that it's a good 50% colder than the 11 previous winters, and nearly 150% colder than the mildest winter of the past 11 years. But, maybe all this shows is just how variable winter can be in California (and I thought it was variable in Texas and Florida!). Oh well, I am counting on a good bloom from the peonies, lilacs and apples this year. --Ron | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Supreme Crown Gall ! Username: Jeri Post Number: 590 Registered: 01-2006 |
And at that, Ron, you've had a LOT more rain than we have. We're sitting now at less than 1/4 of our "normal" rainfall. This is shaping up to be a memorable drought down here in SoCalif., and I can "smell" water-rationing coming. The conditions we've had so far are really hurting our agricultural community. The combination of unusual cold and extreme dryness is hurting the orchards. Roses in my microclimate normally receive NO chill hours. None. I am REALLY curious to see what our spring bloom will be like. The worst downside at this point is lack of rainfall to wash out built-up mineral salts left behind by irrigation with our bad water. Jeri Jennings Coastal Ventura Co., Sunset Zone 24 | ||
| Ron Robertson (Lemecdutex) Bug Squisher Username: lemecdutex Post Number: 81 Registered: 01-2006 |
Melva, I remembered to look on our California chill-factor webpage after posting that to see how this winter stacks up against previous winters. In the 11 years tracked, at this time of year we've ranged from 526 chilling hours in 97-98, to 1451 for this year. The second closest is in 2000-01 with 1026 at this time of year. The chilling hours are tracked from 11/1 to Feb 28/29. So, it's not just our imaginations in Northern California that this has been a colder winter than normal, it's borne out by the chilling hours record. Here's the website for this handy little bit of information, and I want to thank Paula (SFBay Paula) for posting that link a year ago, I've found it endlessly interesting and helpful: http://rics.ucdavis.edu/fnric2/chillcalc/index.cfm This has been some kind of winter, I think we've had only a few nights since the beginning of November when we didn't have a frost. I've lost track of how many days have been below 25°, and here, right at the house, we've had 15° at least twice. I decided to chance planting tulips this year without pre-chilling. Looks like it was a good year to do that! I realize these temps are nothing at all to a lot of the country, but it is something here. My mertoniensis foxgloves have all died back, or maybe have been killed by this winter. First time in my life I've had any kind of foxglove suffer from winter in any way! I wish some of that excess rain we had last year would have held off until this year! I can't remember when we last got rain of anything more than about 1/10th of an inch, and even that was weeks ago. --Ron | ||
| Ron Robertson (Lemecdutex) Bug Squisher Username: lemecdutex Post Number: 80 Registered: 01-2006 |
Melva, When I was a kid, my grandmother said that chilling was the total number of hours below 45°F over the winter. She had to find peaches and other fruit that were low enough chill for her garden. However, strangely enough she grew some great Bosc pears and Elberta peaches there in SE Texas a little out from Conroe. I remember the pear trees were so laden with fruit every year that the trees' branches would hang all the way to the ground. Stranger still was that when she bought the pears they were labeled as Barlett pears, a variety I don't care for, but I love the Bosc ones... Anyway, both of those trees are relatively high-chill. Nowadays, I understand that one of the more common methods of counting chilling hours is to count the number of hours above 32° and below 45°, with temperatures high enough above 45° actually counting backwards on winter chill (one reason it's so hard to get enough chilling in Texas with all those winter days that reach into the upper 60s and above). As for roses, the ones that need winter chill probably need 700–800 hours, as I mentioned before. As for how to know the status of the bloodlines (such a strange description of rose parentage, or is it called bloodlines because they so often draw blood from their caretakers?), you're right, how can you know what percentage of each of their parents is in the progeny's makeup. And how do you know which parent's chilling needs are the most important? I do know that I had a Cardinal de Richelieu, a Hybrid China that is pretty heavily influenced by its Gallica parentage bloomed fantastically for me every year in the Conroe area of Texas. --Ron | ||
| melva wheeler (Melvalyn) Bug Squisher Username: melvalyn Post Number: 9 Registered: 05-2005 |
Ron, How do you factor the hours of chill time> at what temperature, and for how long? I push the zone for a number of my roses..I adore the Gallica's. I was told to try to get the ones that have 'China Blood' as those will do better in an area that really doesn't get very much Winter...but how do you know the status of their blood? | ||
| Linda Buzzell-Saltzman (Linda) Bug Squisher Username: linda Post Number: 41 Registered: 01-2006 |
All too true, Ron. Alas, we can't grow peonies, lily of the valley or (most) lilacs here either (Zone 10) I miss all those "high chill" beauties and wish I could grow the "high chill" roses too! But the teas, chinas and noisettes are lovely here, so I'll enjoy those... Linda | ||
| Ron Robertson (Lemecdutex) Bug Squisher Username: lemecdutex Post Number: 74 Registered: 01-2006 |
Linda, I'd say that most of the roses that need a serious amount of winter chilling require at least 1000 hours of chilling to grow and flower well. That's about what we get here and where I lived in Fresno, and every class of rose bloomed reliably. Where I lived in Texas, it was probably more along the 400–500 range (about 40-50 miles NNE of Houston), and some roses were tricky, or didn't bloom all that well (full Gallicas, Albas, etc., if they were hybrids with any China or Tea, they bloomed fine). Possibly some can go down into the 700-800 hr range, I'm guessing, but if you get to around 1000, you're probably just fine for everything (it's also the level where regular herbaceous peonies bloom, from what I've experienced). --Ron | ||
| Linda Buzzell-Saltzman (Linda) Bug Squisher Username: linda Post Number: 39 Registered: 01-2006 |
We're fruit tree growers as well as rose lovers, and I was wondering if there is any equivalent in roses for "chill factor" ratings? I know apples and roses are related, no? We're a "low chill" area so know we can't grow fruit trees with ratings (chill requirements) over about 450 hours with any success. It seems that roses are similar in that regard, and some require winter chilling and a period of deciduousness? Has anyone given roses these ratings? |