| Author | Message | ||
     stephen scanniello (Steprose) Bug Squisher Username: steprose Post Number: 287 Registered: 01-2006 |
I've started the thread in the general discussion folder. I would pass this question by Kent, he knows best about our site capabilities. Whatever makes our data entry the easiest would make the most sense. Maybe we need a new area, protected by password, that can be accessed by those who volunteer to assist HMF? | ||
| Merrill Hulse (Kernel) Bug Squisher Username: kernel Post Number: 46 Registered: 09-2004 |
Stephen, At the risk of being swamped, I have the authority to add and edit roses. If folks send me authoritative info on roses, I can add it. Sorry, but Steve doesn't have a good way for me to deal with erroneous/questionable photos. I do ask those who upload photos to include pertinent info about the photo such as size, the part of the country and season. If the photo quarrels with the description, so note on the photo and say where the pictured rose came from. As Cass says, include foliage. She even uploads foliage, hip and habit photos. Now... I've created a DOC file that lists the alternative entries for all HMF rose headings. I've uploaded it to the files section of the Gold Coast Heritage Roses Group list, but I'd like to make it more generally available so people reporting roses can see what entries are acceptable. Stephen. Do you suppose it could be maintained on the HRF site for download? I could convert it to .PDF for common use on any OS platform. A new major thread here for HMF additions/corrections would be nice. Mel | ||
| stephen scanniello (Steprose) Bug Squisher Username: steprose Post Number: 283 Registered: 01-2006 |
I'll start a new thread for HMF in the "General Topics" folder ss | ||
| stephen scanniello (Steprose) Bug Squisher Username: steprose Post Number: 282 Registered: 01-2006 |
thanks allison, we truly appreciate your assistance. I think a new thread is a good idea. stephen | ||
| Allison Strong (Countess_wildrose) Bug Squisher Username: countess_wildrose Post Number: 30 Registered: 01-2006 |
I am so happy to see there is interest here in HRF in helping the HMF site become even more valuable than it already is! I realize this is hijacking this thread in the extreme (forgive us, Carole?), so I do hope Stephen or one of us will start a thread about HMF and our ideas elsewhere in the forum... I am in for some assistance if something is worked out, whether that be a small financial donation, or some time in assisting with working out the bugs, or both! Thanks for all the ideas, I just love seeing new projects get started, old projects getting finished, and current works getting a boost! | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Bug Squisher Username: Jeri Post Number: 143 Registered: 01-2006 |
An easy way to make size understandable is to place a ruler in the photo. If you don't have a ruler, maybe a dime, or a quarter will help. Something -- anything! -- with a standard size, as a reference. Jeri Jennings | ||
| Liesbeth Cooper (Liesbeth) Bug Squisher Username: Liesbeth Post Number: 14 Registered: 07-2005 |
When photographing roses for ID it is most important to try to include at least a 3/4 view of the bloom, a bud showing the shape of the calyx and the sepals, a leaf showing the leaf margin and the stipules. That is not easy to do, but it is possible. Giving the size of the bloom is also important as we never know if the photo is a close-up or not. Liesbeth | ||
| stephen scanniello (Steprose) Bug Squisher Username: steprose Post Number: 281 Registered: 01-2006 |
I agree Cass, It would be worthwhile to note name sources; track down the origin of a name that is currently in the trade. It's really hard to sell a book idea that isn't full of rose porn. I would love to see a book showing some of the imperfections as well. I've tried to make corrections (or rather suggestions for corrections) on HMF, but I'm not sure if I was succesful in getting the info to the right place. | ||
| Cass Bernstein (Cass) Bug Squisher Username: Cass Post Number: 78 Registered: 01-2006 |
I'd take the so-called errors one more step. Many of the errors are on the part of rose sellers. Many growers have no interest in resolving identify conflicts and simply picture the roses they bought or were sent. Helpmefind can help resolve these problems by highlighting errors or conflicts. At the same time it can demonstrate the amazing effect that climatic conditions can have on bloom form and color. Now if we could only convince rose photographers along with the rest of the world and its nurserymen to include a few leaves in each shot, we would be well on the way to having an even more valuable tool. | ||
| stephen scanniello (Steprose) Bug Squisher Username: steprose Post Number: 280 Registered: 01-2006 |
Mel, (or anyone who may know this answer) How do we get in touch with Steve? I'm still interested in pursuing some sort of sponsorship with HRF, using the term "sponsorship" loosely, since we haven't had direct contact with steve in regard to this. This should be our first step. | ||
| Merrill Hulse (Kernel) Bug Squisher Username: kernel Post Number: 45 Registered: 09-2004 |
I somehow missed many of the posts in this thread. As was said, HMF is primarily a volunteer effort. Steve is a software engineer, not an expert rosarian. The site has recently added a sponsorship capability as Steve can't live on bytes alone! The ability to add & edit is limited because when it was open, some people tried to mess up the site. Still, a few of us have the authority to add & edit rose entries. Steve is working on finding a way to fix erroneous photos. Breeders are allowed to enter their rose information directly. Information has been entered for, I think, most/all roses in MRXI. I'm sure none of us has ever seen a rose reference without error. The beauty of HMF is that it is dynamic and can evolve toward greater accuracy. HMF is more and more picking up CRLs role of providing nursery reported sources for listed roses and in the process, getting nursery input to accuracy. Perhaps a major thread could be added to this HRF forum where people could report errors and unlisted roses which could be discussed until a reasonable concensus is reached. At this point, one of the authorized editors could correct the HMF entry. Disagreements can be listed in "Notes" or "Comments." Yes, financial sponsorship by HRF would advance its accuracy and completeness. Da Kernel | ||
| Allison Strong (Countess_wildrose) Bug Squisher Username: countess_wildrose Post Number: 29 Registered: 01-2006 |
just checking back by after an absence to see if anyone was still talking of volunteers to help with the HMF site? | ||
| Sandi Dreer (Sandi) Bug Squisher Username: sandi Post Number: 4 Registered: 01-2006 |
Cass, I agree that most members aren't aware of these issues and that it's not HMF's responsibility to resolve them. The comments section is something I've not posted in yet, but seems like a great place to store zone & region specific information in. HMF is full of rose porn & is one of the first places I look when I want to look up a rose. | ||
| Cass Bernstein (Cass) Bug Squisher Username: Cass Post Number: 36 Registered: 01-2006 |
Hi, Sandi. I doubt that the posters of photos are aware of identity disputes or mislabeling until after they post their photos, if then. It isn't HMF's place to resolve these things.Users can tell pretty quickly if an obvious mistake is made. That's where the notes and comments of posters are helpful. There will be naming disputes, bad photos and other problems of unreliable data, but it's still more useful than a rose porn book where every rose is photographed to look like a high-centered hybrid tea. | ||
| Sandi Dreer (Sandi) Shovel Pruner Username: sandi Post Number: 3 Registered: 01-2006 |
Another thing about how useful HMF can be is to see via reliable photos how roses can vary by zone and region. But the key is HMF members posting photos of the correct rose. | ||
| Allison Strong (Countess_wildrose) Bug Squisher Username: countess_wildrose Post Number: 21 Registered: 01-2006 |
You are most welcome, my friend! Let us know if and when anything comes of this idea. | ||
| stephen scanniello (Steprose) Bug Squisher Username: steprose Post Number: 153 Registered: 01-2006 |
thank you. stephen | ||
| Sue Hopkins (Seattlesuze) Shovel Pruner Username: SeattleSuze Post Number: 3 Registered: 01-2006 |
Second volunteer here! I'd be thrilled to work on this project for a few hours a week. HMF has been a wonderful resource for me. And thanks to warnings from Allison and others on Garden Web, I was careful to seek additional sources on photographs. It seems to me that some error was inevitable since members were able to post photographs at will. Some kind of monitoring would be wonderful although I imagine it would seriously stretch HMF's budget to do so. Perhaps we could help in that way as well. Sue | ||
| Allison Strong (Countess_wildrose) Bug Squisher Username: countess_wildrose Post Number: 17 Registered: 01-2006 |
Leave it to Cindi! (*winks*) You always have a plough-through plan, girlfriend! Stephen, I use HMF occasionally, I enjoy the resource, but have often thought there were discrepancies here and there, certainly there are typos as well, and have noted oddball quirks like the wrong rose photo linked to the data of a rose that could not possibly be that rose. (A picture of a yellow floribunda type, but the description being gallicaesque comes to mind. That was a couple of years ago. Hopefully already corected.) If this alliance becomes reality, I would be very willing to devote 2 or 3 hours per week to assisting in updating, or correcting typos or whatever. There, your first volunteer! | ||
| Cindi Ard (Cindi) Bug Squisher Username: Cindi Post Number: 20 Registered: 11-2004 |
Stephen. Why haven't you used it. I have already used it a dozen times this morning and last night looking up the roses that are being talked on here. Another thing that I did a search on this morning was YOU. http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?i=U35&tab=8 You can not get your article readable because probably you have not asked...Maybe supported or choose not too. I did see one thing I never heard of and would like to read. La Vie en Rose. What was that. Article (magazine) published June 1999 by Garden Design Magazine June/July 1999 Anyway. You might want to check it out...And update yourself. | ||
| stephen scanniello (Steprose) Bug Squisher Username: steprose Post Number: 113 Registered: 01-2006 |
I still haven't used this site, but judging from everyone's response, support from HRF sounds like a good idea. Questions: how accurate are the entries? how does this data base compare to the Modern Roses and The Combined Rose List? Are the entries researched for inaccuracies, spelling mistakes? What source does Steve use to check entries against (dates, spelling, etc) Perhaps one contribution, besides a monetary one, would be to fact check the data? Would Steve be open to this? Are there volunteers out there from our membership and forum who are interested in helping us? I'm for it if we can get enough people together to help and, more importantly, if Steve is interested in having our support. | ||
| Gregg Lowery (Gregg) Bug Squisher Username: gregg Post Number: 5 Registered: 01-2006 |
I agree wholeheartedly with Cass's suggestion. I do not think we could begin to approach the complexity and ease of use of the HMF website, and I believe strongly that it deserves to be supported. Steve has worked for years for nothing to develop this; exactly the sort of effort the Foundation should stand behind. However, the question is how can the Foundation help HMF? Sponsorship would be the best start. (A financial contribution.) Perhaps also the Foundation could help to funnel in information about found roses that could help to improve the entries that are generated at HMF. Our own forum could be set up to begin to 'process' found roses. Just as folks have already begun threads on individual roses, threads that are allowed to continue over time can gradually accrete information on a particular found rose. Discussions on found roses often turn up synonyms if they are given enough time resting online for folks to post new information. Now, the trick is, you need some volunteers to work on sifting through this information, even going to the trouble to try to find answers to questions about the rose, then creating new entries on HMF. HMF allows for updated information ongoing, so that those volunteers could continue to post new info as it is brought to our attention. What do you think? -Gregg | ||
| stephen scanniello (Steprose) Bug Squisher Username: steprose Post Number: 93 Registered: 01-2006 |
Hi Shelley, welcome to our forum! stephen | ||
| Shelley (Shellfleur) Greenhorn Username: Shellfleur Post Number: 1 Registered: 01-2006 |
I agree that HMF is an excellent resource. I am fairly new to roses but it is often the first place I go to "check out" a rose. I have learned a lot from their database. | ||
| Kent Krugh (Kkrugh) Board Administrator Post Number: 26 Registered: 09-2004 |
Stephen, Go to http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/roses.php, enter a name, and check it out. BTW, the time attached to all posts is the time of the server in San Francisco, regardless of where the sender is. Kent | ||
| stephen scanniello (Steprose) Bug Squisher Post Number: 33 Registered: 01-2006 |
I'd love to hear more, I've never been to the Help me find data base. stephen (s) | ||
| Jeri Jennings (Jeri) Bug Squisher Post Number: 27 Registered: 01-2006 |
Mel Said: t would be much better if HRF recognized HMF on the HRF web site, supported (free) membership there and encouraged posting new information and correcting erroneous entries on that site. I feel sure that Steve would support a close relationship that doesn't involve control. *** FWIW, Steve L. has been VERY open to suggestions and new ideas. For one thing, HMF is now taking information on Found Roses. Some of us asked for this, in the hope that we can start to reconcile some of the many roses that are floating around under multiple study names. That's a valuable effort on the part of HMF, and one I'd love to see supported. Jeri Jennings | ||
| stephen scanniello (Steprose) Bug Squisher Post Number: 15 Registered: 01-2006 |
let's keep chatting about this, would love to hear from other board members, in fact, maybe we should post this thread on the board site? Are you set up for posting on the board site? | ||
| Merrill Hulse (Kernel) Bug Squisher Post Number: 20 Registered: 09-2004 |
If we were starting from scratch, Stephen, I'd agree, but HelpMeFind is way out front as a rose database. The ARS wanted to work with them, but also wanted control. Steve Lacouette (with many of us agreeing) said no. So now the ARS is working with a commercial outfit to establish their own limited database. Others have setup rose databases, but HMF has prevailed because it is a good implementation, is constantly being improved and is open to member's ideas. It would be much better if HRF recognized HMF on the HRF web site, supported (free) membership there and encouraged posting new information and correcting erroneous entries on that site. I feel sure that Steve would support a close relationship that doesn't involve control. Mel | ||
| stephen scanniello (Steprose) Bug Squisher Post Number: 5 Registered: 01-2006 |
Hmm, sounds like that would be a good thing to have on our website. | ||
| Cass Bernstein (Cass) Shovel Pruner Post Number: 3 Registered: 01-2006 |
It would be very helpful if Ruth would allow this information to be noted on HelpMeFind/Roses, including a general idea of when she first collected this rose. Unfortunately, there is no central clearing house for the provenance of found roses. Steve at HelpMeFind has opened up his site to found roses, and many of us are using it as a repository of information that might otherwise be lost in the archives of forums. When a rose ends up in commerce with a "real" name, the provenance becomes particularly pertinent, I think. | ||
| Carole Christman (Carole) Powdery Mildew Post Number: 2 Registered: 09-2004 |
Thanks so very much!!! If you ever speak to Ms. Knopf please tell her that there is now another Rock Hill Peach Tea growing in Rock Hill and my sister-in-law just loves it. There is also another one growing here in Tega Cay (a couple of towns over) and I am just thrilled with it. What a gorgeous plant! | ||
| Kent Krugh (Kent_krugh) Board Administrator Post Number: 3 Registered: 09-2004 |
This is what Ruth Knopf shared with me via email about "Rock Hill Peach Tea": "The rose Rock Hill Peach Tea is one I found many years ago in a Rock Hill cemetery but it is probably gone by now. Last time I saw it it was in very bad shape and not much left. I do not know it's true identification." | ||
| Merrill Hulse (Kernel) Bug Squisher Post Number: 10 Registered: 09-2004 |
Here are 3 photos: http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?i=A5238&tab=10 | ||
| Carole Christman (Carole) Greenhorn Post Number: 1 Registered: 09-2004 |
I recently ordered this rose as a gift for my sister-in-law who happens to live in Rock Hill, South Carolina. All I know is that it is a found rose, found by Ruth Knopf. I would love to know any and all info about this history of this rose so I can pass it on with the gift. |